Motivating Shamrocks and Building Consistency | Mr. Nick George

In Episode 24 of Slightly Less Scripted, we sit down with Mr. Nick George, Catholic Central theology teacher and strength & conditioning coach.

Nick shares his philosophy for motivating students in the classroom and the weight room, emphasizing the power of consistency, accountability, and daily habits. He also opens up about his personal journey—from entering the seminary to ultimately finding his calling as an educator and mentor at CC.

Filled with practical wisdom, stories of growth, and reflections on faith and leadership, this episode highlights the lasting impact of investing in others one day at a time.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome back to uh slightly less scripted. We are here with theology teacher Nick George and uh strength and conditioning coach. Correct. Right? Many hats here at the school. That's right. Thank you for having me. You try to stay busy. I mean, you've been teaching here for quite a while now. It's my 13th year. 13th year. That's right. And I was lucky enough to have you for uh for a couple classes, I think. Feelings mutual. Yeah, it was good. Uh I would say in terms of um, you know, in terms of your class, you really do a good job of engaging with the students and and creating conversations that are meaningful and impactful. At least I could say that from my point of view.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Appreciate that, Steven. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

How do you think uh how do you think you kind of create that uh culture where you get kids excited about you know something like theology?

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah, I think uh I just heard uh Coach Sesante on one of our school podcasts talk about vulnerability. I know that that instantly conjures ideas of sharing about difficulties at home or getting into deep, maybe inappropriate personal issues that maybe you actually shouldn't be sharing with a class. And I don't think that's what vulnerability means. I think vulnerability in the sense that every student can automatically tell for better or for worse. If you ask somebody how they're doing in the hallway, is that a pleasantry or is that because you actually are interested? And if they actually said, I'm actually not doing very well, do you have a minute? The answer would be absolutely I have a minute. Yeah, let's let's talk. And so in the same way we could say between people uh in relationships, you know, people don't remember the things you say, but they remember how you made them feel. I think you can really run a whole classroom on that. That if there's a topic that interests you guys, if there's something that matters to you, if there's something that's relevant to your life, even if it's off script or if it's slightly less scripted, again, that there's room and there's time for that. And of course we'll talk about that. And I know I have freedom as a theology teacher because there's not an ACT section that I have to be pressured to prepare guys for. Um, but there's a freedom in that, and there's a there's a goodness in that. Um, now we can make sure that in a classroom we can build a culture, especially in a theology class where um anything goes if it's important and if it matters to us.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, for sure. Sneaking the name of the podcast into his answer. That was sharp. He's giving you a run for your money from both there.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

That's right. Well, this has been fun. Thank you, everybody. I think we've done our work here. Are you getting tired of these yet? Because you've done a few of them now.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Never. No. My wife would say that talking is the thing I like most. It's a strong suit. She knows. Absolutely. Yeah, I think this is just gonna make me worse. It's just gonna feed the the bad wolf and make me talk more.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I I love it. I was gonna say, uh, so I remember, yeah, I don't know if I've ever told you this. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't, but I will tell you on camera now. I remember one of the most impactful experiences I had at CC was in your class. I won't name anyone's name, but a student had asked you a kind of personal question about something and it had to do with sinning versus not sinning. And I think at some point we, you know, we talked about it for a little bit, and then you eventually just went and just, hey, listen, you know, so-and-so, it basically means you missed the mark a little bit. So honestly, just if you want to, go ahead and give it a shot and you know, like kind of self-examine yourself afterwards and see how it feels. I was just kind of like, I remember being like, you know, probably 14, 15 years old, and I was like, wow, that's kind of profound.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

So well, I really hope I wasn't encouraging anybody to do anything untoward, but um, but yeah, I really think that uh faith isn't just abstract, right? But it but we're really making claims about what real life is like. And again, you can ask somebody who chooses to live one way versus another, and I think that there's there's truth in in uh who we are and how we feel and who we choose to be. And I think that the proof's in the pudding.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah, it definitely wasn't encouraging him to do to do something on tour. It was more like uh, well, like, you know, if you have done, you know, something think about it. Yeah, if you have done something.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

If you choose not to take my advice, not because it's my advice, but if you choose not to listen to the teachings of logic and of the church, then then see. Yeah, to see what 100%.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And it wasn't that you were saying that it's because I sit it. You were more kind of like uh you're the I think it was we're probably doing something to do with natural law, I think. Yeah, you remember that book. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

And I think too, I think a good teacher feels something like um somebody describing to you geography in the sense of you'll get to the top of the next ridge and you'll look out, and what you're gonna see are a few paths that you might take and laying out a vision for for life, which is exactly what what faith affords us. It gives us vision, right? It helps us to see things that we might not be able to see with our eyes. And hopefully a good teacher can be somebody who steps outside of their assumptions for a moment, is able to walk all around those and to kind of describe the geography and say, here are the arguments, the counterarguments, here are the the consequences of of accepting this and that idea. And and um again, after 13 years, it hasn't gotten old. It's certainly just as enjoyable. And we're talking about those exact topics in class today of what can we discover about life just by thinking about it, just by logic and natural law, the term the term you mentioned. And um again, it's it's never irrelevant and it's always fun to have the one-room schoolhouse, guys from different backgrounds, different belief systems, public school, private school, uh positive juju about religion, negative experiences of of faith. And again, I I'll let you know when it gets old, but uh it hasn't yet.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, how does so how does philosophy and science play a role in terms of you know in terms of your faith, I guess personally, I would say maybe you know, not so much from a teaching aspect, but you would you say that you use you know philosophical ideas and and things about science to almost you know strengthen your faith?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, absolutely. I would say that uh when considered accurately, philosophy and science, the claims of faith, answer different respective questions. For example, the Bible makes the claim that God created the universe, but it doesn't really tell us how, and astrophysics might tell us how the universe came to be, but it stops when you get to the bounds of the ever-expanding universe, or it stops when we get back to the Big Bang as a theory for where everything came from. But notice that it stops there and doesn't tell us the next you could you could use the term metaphysical question we could ask, which is, well, if there was a huge explosion that started the universe, great, I have no reason to disbelieve that. There seems to be evidence that Neil deGrasse Tyson and the rest of the astrophysicists of the world are pointing to. But then there's the next natural question that if we're courageous enough to ask it, that we would say, well, explosions don't typically happen out of nowhere. If an explosion happened in a route today, we'd probably say, how, why, what, what was the what was behind it? And so the what was behind it seems to be the bigger questions that dovetail perfectly and are compatible with and are just as fascinating and mysterious as the um the scientific questions. So with great esteem and respect for this scientific community, um, I sometimes make the comparison that there are guys who are big fish when they're in high school and they have all the answers and they have everything they need to feel great about their high school experience. And then you fast forward a few years and they never really grow beyond that. And again, I would say that science sometimes can present itself, or there are people who assume that science has all the answers. It has all the answers in a very limited capacity to explain so many things inside this universe, but it leaves us with so many questions that go further. And so I hope, at least for my students, and this is certainly how I feel about it, I I want to hopefully pass along some of this vision, is the fascinating, winsome, sometimes usually above my head and pay grade world of science is one of the most worthy enterprises, but it doesn't answer every question, and that life in a lot of ways requires a kind of faith just to get out of bed in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

How do I know for sure that my wife really loves me? I could make a counterargument that she's been fooling me this whole time and that I have an explanation which could explain every one of her behaviors, that really she has these ulterior motives. But at the end of the day, I assess the evidence that's available and I live my life according to certainly the natural faith that I can't prove it with a scientific experiment, but every kind of evidence besides a repeatable laboratory process points to she loves me. Yeah. Again, I'll report back in the next podcast if I try not to be wrong about that. But in the meantime, I'm living my life on a kind of faith that science cannot prove or disprove for me. And again, religious faith just addresses those same kind of instincts toward toward God.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Would you say that you're a very like habit-building person? I try to be. Probably like a lot of people, I I'm kind of a funny shape that I have some very strong habits in some areas, probably some that are motivated by insecurity or vanity in other areas. Um, and then some where I could really use some some better habits. Again, having a family at home, uh, we just had our our uh our fifth sand. Yeah, thank you. Um so we have a a six-week old at home, and I would say that most people can report that when uh when you have a baby, that blessed experience, a lot of times you a lot of your habits kind of begin to begin to temporarily poof might be the right the right way to describe it. Um so hopefully my answer next next time will be yes, I have excellent habits. Sean Sean knows probably pretty well as that's right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Uh I don't have five kids. Uh I have one kid. Um five. I'm surprised you're here right now.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Uh yeah, gosh. Yeah, still still kicking.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

It just um it's an it's an incredible.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah, no, that's that's kind. Thanks. My wife deserves all the credit in the world. And uh really I've got really wonderful, wonderful kids. We're very, very fortunate, and whatever faults and foibles we all have. Um, we really uh yeah, we're really very blessed.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And you're still very involved at Catholic Central. You're if you don't mind me saying, you're ripped. Oh gosh, that's kind. Great, yeah, great physical fit, great model for our students here. How do you thank you? How do you keep getting after it in the gym? You know, like what keeps you motivated there?

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah. Again, maybe that's one of the one of the habits that's more motivated by by vanity. Maybe I don't know if uh I would I would hold out my my um motivations as as pure and good. I would say that um, like for so many people, it helps when you find a habit that also is something you enjoy. Um and I I really do enjoy going to um going to work out. And I used to be a runner. Um, I used to I ran cross-country in high school and in college um and and track and I ran a marathon once upon a time. That was about 60 pounds ago. And um, I would say that again, it it's a little bit easier to get to the gym for 45 minutes than it is to run 10 miles. And so I've I've really taken the path of least resistance, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah. And then you've also helped our students out in the process too.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Absolutely. It's been a thrill to be part of so many different incarnations of uh and steps of growth for our strength program and our performance program. And and most recently over the past two years, my focus has really shifted towards speed, agility, performance training. Uh and we work with an awesome staff, Coach Boone, Coach Megasi, Coach Moses from Ethos in uh in Plymouth. And so it's a thrill. I get to go outside on a day like today. I work with our lacrosse team and our football team developing speed in season for the one group and pre-season for the other, and and so many of other teams. And then I um just love that I can send the guys back in. I know that the uh the training they do with with our Ethos crew is absolutely off the charts and and wonderful. And uh, it's an awesome experience with our students outside the classroom and and to um to partner with them on that that uh yeah, that front.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

I thought that was a great idea when you first I remember I think you know you first came to me for either a logo or an idea of something that we could do for it. But uh the 20 mile an hour club, I thought that was just kind of slick because you know it's like one of those things that you as a student can be like, okay, this is achievable, this is attainable, it's something I could do while I'm here.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

It's a cool metric, and I think I can say, even as a man who was once an outsider at Catholic Central, that there were many years where our reputation was Catholic Central will beat you, but it'll beat you with a bunch of big, lugubrious, you know, thick-necked guys. And if you can get away from one of them, if they can't get a hand on you, that we don't have the athleticism to keep up. We're big, we run smash mouth football. But, you know, again, if there was once a reputation we had that we were not athletic in the way we did athletics, I think we've seen so many of our of our student athletes just do some extraordinary things and show extraordinary work at the over the past few years, and it's cool to be one small part of that. But um, man, you know, I was saying in in other contexts, you know, we have guys who really internalize that culture of developing their athletic potential, and speed is obviously one of the fronts that I I most enjoy working with guys on that. And um, man, it sure makes our athletes lethal, whether it's developing themselves just for the limited arena of wrestling in terms of size or or the entire gridiron or the pitch for rugby, or you know, it's uh it's a very cool, very cool thing to be part of.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

What's the hardest thing about, you know, it's kind of a hot take question, but what's the hardest thing about being elite and kind of whatever whatever you choose to do, whether it's classroom, whether it's being in athletics, like you know, how is it how do you motivate someone to just keep doing the same thing? Maybe when you've almost achieved like you know, like football team has achieved the state championship. How do you kind of motivate people to be like, hey, let's climb back up to the top?

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Yeah. No, and again, I'm I'm just borrowing from our great coaches and standing on their shoulders. Um, there's a great uh Rodriard Kipling poem, maybe you're familiar with the poem If, uh poem that he wrote, I think, for his his son uh to talk about overcoming trials and how to live a life that's worthwhile. And um, at least one of the phrases in that is if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same. I think the idea is, and I you appreciate a little bit more, you know, like Nick Saban seemed so grumpy so much of the time, and like he couldn't just enjoy a win, and he's always nitpicking and he's always telling the press it's all just rat poison. And but again, he was a guy who was utterly unimpressed with himself in triumph and utterly undeterred in failure because he knew that those two are just imposters, two sides of a coin, that they're part of a process. And if you get too self-congratulatory with success, that it's just as much a deterrent as if you get too disheartened with failure. And so, again, in all of that, I think you know, I tell guys a lot of times there's no workout I could give you, or anybody could give you that could replace consistency. There's no perfect constellation of lifts or perfect combination of speed training drills that could replace doing this daily, doing this frequently, doing this not just when you feel like it. And again, that kind of consistency is hard for anybody. It's hard for a grown adult, and it's hard, I think, to establish. And I so admire, gosh, I our students and our athletes who at this young stage of their life have really so many of them established very mature consistency in their studies, in their character, and their faith, and certainly in athletics too.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

It's uh almost uh I don't know if this is the correct term or not, it's almost a sickness that you need to have to like go after it. I was just watching uh the Masters and Scotty Scheffler talking about, you know, whoa, what's this all for? Yeah, I know I'm gonna be back here at the Masters, and even if I win, you know, it's kind of interesting, like a high-level athlete that's achieved so much to still put everything in perspective and be like, listen, at the end of the day, whether I win this tournament or come in a hundredth, I'm gonna go home with my wife, my kids, and yeah, kind of it's it's the duality of of being successful, is being like this is the most important thing, but also is it yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

No, I think there's a kind of compartmentalization that that that you kind of do need to be elite, but then also sometimes those same exact attitudes are what burn relationships and bridges and what make it impossible to be consistent and steady. You know, your kids at home can tell if you're just dreaming about being someplace else, and so yeah, I think it it requires a certain kind of not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing, or you have to attack something with a certain kind of I don't know, doggedness like you don't know any better. And then again, like you you go home and hopefully you attack being a husband, being a father, being a good friend with the same kind of consulting.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Still have the humility to kind of be like just a normal person, and I gotta go about my my daily routine.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I knew a uh at least one of my heroes, I didn't know this person, but one of my heroes, a priest who was the rector of the seminary I attended, Father Bill Baer, used to tell a story uh about a man he knew well who, again, it's just a really simple vignette, but he would go to his whole day at work, he would drive home, and he would sit there in the driveway for at least a moment and remind himself that he's not going home to a vacation. He's going home to the second adventure of his day. And if he's not ready to be the husband and to be the dad, like he's got to work himself up a little bit because again, you you don't want your children's memory of you to be, he went home and he locked himself in his study, he went home and he had no energy for us.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

So um, so again, I I think it's the adventure of life is not just in career and athletics. The the real adventure is, you know, when you open the car door at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah. But you brought it up, and uh, you know, I mean, I don't know if you're comfortable kind of sharing your experience, but you know, obviously I remember your story a little bit from the classroom about uh attending seminary, but then uh ultimately going a different direction in terms of getting married. I mean, do you feel comfortable talking about it?

SPEAKER_03 17:18

No, of course. No, I really am so grateful for the years I spent in the seminary. Uh, when I graduated from Celine High School in 2006, uh just outside of Ann Arbor. Um, by the end of my time, my senior year, I felt this really strong conviction that seemingly to me did not come out of a lot of career considerations. It really just, it was one of the few times of my life where I really felt like God was calling me to something in particular. And that thing was to enter the seminary and to at least discern or be open to the idea of that ending with becoming a priest. And I think what really did it, there was a priest in Ann Arbor that some of our students know from St. Francis Parish named Father James Conlon. And he had just said in his own life, as he addressed this group of us on a retreat, that he realized if God was calling him to be a priest, that that was what was going to make him most happy. And that really simple thing was, I think, something God used that that opened my mind to it. And um, so I was thrilled, honestly, four years at St. John Vienny Seminary in Minnesota on the campus of a school called the University of St. Thomas. And then I spent uh four years total uh back here in Detroit at Sacred Heart Seminary and in parish ministry. And if the first time in my life where I felt real confidence and clarity, that I thought God was calling me to something was when I entered the seminary. The only other time I'd say I felt that kind of unprompted clarity from God, not because of an interaction or an apparent, you know, uh circumstance, but just feeling almost out of left field that God was calling me out of the seminary towards marriage and family life. And I discerned that, gave that some space and time in the spring of 2013 while I was ministering and helping out at St. Patrick's Parish in Brighton, where I met some of our current students, some of the guys really who just graduated last year were kindergartners at St. Patrick's School when I was there, you know, 12 years ago, 13 years ago, um, which has been a pretty cool full circle experience here. And um, so yeah, feeling that confidence and feeling like I I could then move towards marriage and family life with all of this training and background and vision and faith from my time in seminary, it dovetailed very, very directly into what also felt very providential, which was that that within a few months I had um applied to an open theology position here and started teaching here in the fall of 2013. And uh obviously have I've uh been so grateful and continued that mission ever since.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

The rest is history. Absolutely. In terms of that decision, do you think that was one of the more difficult decisions in your life? Or would you not classify it as difficult?

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Yeah, I think there are things that were difficult about it, and like so many things in life, you know, that old saying, like wherever you go, there you are. And again, sometimes the difficulties are the difficulties we make for ourselves. And I would say that once I got out of my own way and allowed it to be as simple as letting letting God sort of point my compass towards true north, that having that confidence was it made it easy or it made something that could have been much more difficult, much easier because I didn't have to have fear or uh concern that I was doing the wrong thing. And again, I think um there was something instilled in me in my college years at the same time. That again, without being irreverent, life is hard, but it's not that hard, or life is long, but it's not that long, and a certain sense of, well, if I make the wrong decision, then I'll just I don't try to keep trying to do good things for 70 or so yeah, then I'll die anyway. So I think there is a good kind of sense of like, well, you know, like I you gotta stay all by the stars you can see and do the best you can, and this is the best I can. I feel like God's calling me to one one way of life, and so I'll pursue that. I gave him a best shot. Yeah, oh absolutely. Can't do much more than your best.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Would you say that uh did you know that you uh wanted to go into the seminary like as a young kid or go into teaching? Did you know that what you're doing today uh you'd kind of be doing eventually in some capacity?

SPEAKER_03 21:04

No, I I did apparently when I was in high school, and I maybe had forgotten this later, before I thought about priesthood as a viable option, I I I think I said I would love to be a coach or a teacher. I've also always been attracted to like the fields of physical therapy, having had experiences where I limped in, unable to run my race, and somehow, you know, some of the extraordinary PTs I've worked with were able to work their magic and do things that seemed like like voodoo and and get me get me healthy again. So I I've been fascinated, I think, with the worlds of teaching and performance in various ways. But it definitely was a very clean dovetail that all of my time and all the investments made in me and my time in the seminary, which was an all male environment, at least as far as the seminary itself went, and all of the teaching and training and everything that was poured into me. Um I can't imagine a landing place better than Catholic Central to turn that all back to to be to be the service of others.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

But you are A very you're very interesting, man.

unknown 22:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

The feelings mutual. Like completely in terms of like uh you're like the Dosecchi's guy. Oh a little bit more gray in my beard.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

And yeah, I think I can I can I can approximate.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Everything you say is like if you actually listen to it, it's very like profound and kind of deep. And I was just like, it takes a certain kind of uh man to also I'd say you probably know and to take a guess here, you told me if I'm wrong or right, probably 80 or 90 percent of the student body by name. I'd say close to that.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Yeah, maybe maybe definitely by the time seniors graduate, I would say it's closer to 90%, 95%. Definitely having freshmen or being pretty heavy on freshman classes affords me the opportunity to get to know, you know, a good 60 or 70 percent of guys in their first year here training. Obviously, guys I don't have in class, I get to um get to meet and get to know a lot more guys. I think that's a fair average. Yeah, 75, 85%, something like that, I would say I am.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

And was that like something that you chose that you're like, I want to make sure I know people's names, or is this just something that happens naturally by you know you spending so much time here?

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah, I think maybe three things. I think I I just have a memory that's that that lends itself to that. You know, I I think it it's it's helpful that that there are some some of my just the way my brain works that that that that functions a little bit easier. I would say also that I tend to be shameless in um there are some guys that I just forget their name 12 times and I just ask 12 times, I'm really sorry. I know I should know this by now. And then I reach a certain critical mass of embarrassment and then I actually remember it, uh, for certain guys at least. But I would say it's been so important to me, I can remember at least a couple times in my life very vividly where it made all the difference in the world that I was known. And again, I maybe I can be forgiven for telling this story again and again and again, but I remember in high school walking down the hallway as a freshman on my way to Senora Washington's Spanish one class. And there was a guy in our school who's actually a good friend of mine now, who is this extraordinary runner, national championship distance runner, extraordinary guy, had a mystique about him. And I walked by him in the hallway and he said, Hey Nick. And it just I like I didn't know that he knew who I was, and it made all the difference in the world to me. Um, and and again, he might be embarrassed that I would even tell the story now that he was just he was just a guy, he didn't wasn't looking to make a difference for anybody, he just said hi to somebody he knew, and again, that made a huge difference to me. Um and again, I can think of other times where it's mattered to me so much that I've been seen and appreciated, and hopefully that's not to the I don't know, to point of flattery or ego, but um it's made such a difference for me and it seems to make such a difference for for the men that we have here. Oh, for sure. When they feel known and seen, and um I'm sure I failed in that as as many, as many ways and times as I've succeeded in that, but that's uh I think the most worthwhile part of our part of our mission. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

You know, you can tell when uh you know when someone comes in, you know, to a workout or to a game and something just looks a little bit different, looks like you know they that they need to be seen or kind of heard or something like that. Yeah, that's I've just I've kind of clocked it as like that there's that look that someone comes in a little bit different than you know maybe they were feeling the day before or something. Yeah. It's just good to check in with them and just be like, hey, you know, is there anything you want to talk about, anything I could do to help or the answer is no, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

You know, and if they know like I'm not trying to get into your stuff, you know, I'm not I'm not taking great pleasure in your drama, but um, but yeah, just to know that that there are people looking out for you, maybe that's enough. You know, maybe even if they say no, thanks, I'm fine. Like I don't have to talk about it now, but to know that they were asked and that somebody noticed that. And again, I'm sure there are guys who slip through the cracks, I'm sure we could make a list of people who could come back and say, like, you didn't do that for me. Yeah, you know, fair enough. I I I can I can be better there too. But um, but yeah, it's really a privilege to be part of part of our guys' lives the way that we we get to be.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

No, one hundred percent. I tell the guys in the esports room, I say, uh, guys, at the end of the day, I'm you know, a little bit older than you, and yes, I I help run a few things in the program, but I'll probably make some mistakes. You're gonna probably make some mistakes this year. Yeah. Let's try to, you know, let's try to forgive a little bit for the mistakes that uh that we that we'll probably we'll end up doing eventually. Because, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

And I think that's the kind of vulnerability that guys can see, not just man, Mr. Yun Shy is really sharing some inappropriate details here. Again, that's not vulnerability. That's vulnerability is what you just described, and and that's um, yeah, I'm here for you.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

You might end up putting some. I mean, I you know, I kind of told my guys, I always start with this story at the beginning of the year, which is just me trying out for for soccer here. Yeah. Like, hey guys, listen, I've been cut here four years in a row.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Like I'll I might I might put you on the wrong team, and I am willing to admit that, you know, like that's something that might end up happening. But hopefully, you know, you know, throughout the course of the year or four years, we kind of get a little bit better each day.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

That's just kind of the goal for everything here.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I couldn't agree more. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

George is like I don't know, you got me stumped because everything you say is so good. Oh gosh, maybe I should ask you a question.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Absolutely. Uh, what's been your highlight of this year? Anything in particular stand out that um you really were grateful for or got to see here at CC?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

You know, I could answer that one for him. Go for it. Mr. Sova. Do it. Yeah. Now I was just gonna bring up uh there was what a moment we we Steven went out into the halls. He went and he sat down in some classrooms this year, and I think one of the classrooms was yours, and he came back like fired up. Like I just I was just in Mr. George's classroom. Man, you really gotta like it's just how I remember it. You just gotta get back in there, and like he really he's he's not doesn't dominate the classroom, but he commands a presence there, and he and he kind of walked me through your whole class. I'm like, gosh, maybe I need to come audit a class of Mr. George. Am I saying it right, Steven?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Do you remember what come what 100%? I did. I uh I don't remember why I saw it in your class, anyways. We do a lot of filming. I was filming something, um, and I I want to say the topic had to do with with Mary. I think it was why is Mary so uh revered revered and in the church, yeah, absolutely. You're just you first of all, when I walked in, you had all the kids stand up and kind of agree. I was just like, this is I loved it, and I was like, this is like the standard for for how you know a classroom should sort of be run. And the kids almost welcome welcomed it in terms of like the the small things that you had them do. And obviously they're high school kids, so I'm I remember someone goofing off, but you kind of got them back on track right away, and uh they had a very good conversation and they were actually uh you know involved and asking questions. And I just thought it was I was like, yeah, that that feels like Mr. George's class. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

No, so I I really feel like I, you know, there's no teacher certification in the state of Michigan for teaching theology, right? I mean, there's it's just not a subject in public schools. So um I missed out originally on some of the things that I only later got to learn about in terms of educational models and theory, and in a whole set of ways, one of my favorite educational terms, which I hope I'm using correctly, uh, is scaffolding. That like the scaffold of a building, it's not the building itself, but it's the structure that helps to support the building and the whole process of constructing something. And I feel like educationally, that's one of the things that uh has been so helpful to me. If I have guys do a reading, not just to say, do this reading, and it's not just do this reading, and I'll explain to you precisely right now what the whole reading is about. It's the scaffolding of here's the reading for tonight, here's the big question I want you to ask, here's the scaffold, here's the guideline. And again, again, to borrow another image, you know, the idea that uh a river can only flow with force if it has clearly defined banks that give it direction and give it trajectory. And so again, in the same way, I hope, yeah, that's I hope my class is exactly that. It's not I'm telling you everything, write this down. It's not what do you guys want to talk about today? But it's here's our direction, here's the energy going in this way, come and join me on it, and then let's let's let that energy carry us to something good.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I think that's exactly what you did. I think you went over to the board and you said, here's kind of step one. We want to get to here by the end of the day. Yeah, and then here's some things that we kind of got to fight through. And I think I I could be wrong, but I think you some some kind of analogy to the Super Bowl and to Tom Brady. And I just was sure, yeah. I remember going back to Sean and just being like, I'm pretty sure he just compared Mary to something with the Super Bowl and I'm sure I did. Absolutely. And I was like, this is just incredible. I was like, he used something that the that the kids would a hundred percent understand. I was like, I I understood what he was talking about. No, it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Well, I remember Kevin Griffin said our our reviewed English teacher here 10 years ago, more that um you should skip to work in the morning. I think that's something that his uh maybe his dad said to him. That whole idea of if you really love what you do, you'll never work a day of your life. Again, that's you know, there's something true about that, there's something false about that. But man, like who's got better than us? Like the fact that I get to have those kind of conversations with so many guys where it's different every class and different questions and hang-ups and ideas, and it's um it's it's just too fun to pass up.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

It's a blast.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

And you have no issues with the uh the repetitiveness of it all. Because I mean, you know, you're teaching the same stuff and the same years to different obviously different students, so they come with a different level of engagement or or interest, but do you feel like you know, some people like room for growth or room for like I'm gonna do something different? Right. Does the repetitiveness ever kind of get boring or not? Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

No, I think there are days where I need the reminder that the reality is I might have said this 13 times over 13 years, and the reality is that I've said this four times today, and I'm gonna say it a fifth time to this last class. And I think if I feel any kind of creeping boredom with that, then it's my it's it's like it's the canary in the mind for me to remember to see my students better because if I look out, it's a different sea of faces. If I repeat this just because it's the fifth time I'm supposed to say this today, I can tell in the response that guys have, and sometimes guys are just tired, fair enough, but I can tell in the response the guys have if I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, to have a conversation with them and to have a dialogue with them and not just a fifth pronouncement of the topics of of today's class. And so yeah, I think that again it is a canary in the minds, it's that warning where if I feel like it's getting repetitive, then apparently I forgot that there's a brand new person or there are brand new people, young men sitting in front of me that I get the privilege of having a relationship with. And it's just always fresh. The thing about people is they can always fascinate you and surprise you and challenge you and disappoint you and upend your expectations. And so um, so yeah, on those days where my habits start to to kind of get a little rusty or my interest starts to wane, um, I'm reminded, I hope, sooner as later, that uh there's endless interest in these conversations, there's endless mystery in the things we get to discuss, and there's endless opportunity just to see and to know the guys in front of me and to talk to them. Where do you find your energy from? Coffee uh would be one of the big ones. I made the joke, and it's turned out to be true, that I've ended up having about a cup of coffee per day per child. So when I had just one child, it was usually one cup of coffee a day. So I think I'm I'm probably tracking along uh about that since uh deal. I could do five kids. Yeah, absolutely. Sounds good. Yeah, it's it's really it's it's a life hack.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I'll talk to my wife this afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. Remind remind me how you take your coffee. I had to buy you a coffee once. Oh, did I? No, we we did a bet. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Yeah, if the whole class got a certain grade or if you got some assets. We'll try to we'll we'll try to bring that back sometime here. Uh interstaff challenge. Um, no, I just I think people, yeah, again, my my wife is is the most incredible woman and an incredible cheerleader who never fails to show interest in what I've I get to do here. Um, my family, and and uh again, I have so many wonderful relationships beyond um staff here and friends outside the school and alumni who who've come through that um yeah, I find I find a lot of energy. And there might just be a temperamental extroversion kind of thing, or that might be part of the equation, but um yeah, there's so much so much good that you can do, so much good that the people are waiting to have to have be a part of their life that that's energizing to me.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah. You know, I had one more question I was just thinking of. Um in terms of you know, classrooms and you've been doing it for 13 years now. How do you think you've uh started to, you know, you think the way you taught 13 years ago is different from the way you teach today? Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I think being um a conductor of the the three-yearing circus in the classroom is a less pressure-filled role than having to fill every minute with yourself. And I think there were times that that wonderfully failed, you know, that there were times where I walked into class and thought, um, well, I'll just cover these topics really quick and then we'll have like 30 minutes of free time. And we went right to the bell because there was a question to a question to some new kind of interest. And then there were times where I thought, like, this is gonna take us at least three classes, and 17 minutes later, we were somehow done for the day. And I think when you uh allow for real organic conversations to arise and you don't have to be the only voice, you're you're scaffolding, you're conducting, you're you're kind of opening opportunities, then it's um it takes some of the pressure off. I think in my insecurity early on, if a guy had a doubt or an uncertainty or a question, I felt like I have to jump right in to respond with the perfect answer. And now I feel like, well, do you play racquetball? Uh never. Never? Yeah, and don't. It's just it's it's um it'll make you hate yourself. I I'm not I don't consider myself a good athlete. And when I have tried to play racquetball in the past, I always see the ball coming toward me and I step toward it and I miss it by a mile. When really like instead of charging forward, I could just take half a step back and do a much better job of actually, you know, hitting the ball. And the classroom earlier on, I would take five steps forward to try to address something or do something or provoke something. When really a lot of times taking half a step back and just saying, like, well, okay, well, tell me about that. Why do you think that? Or if you think this answer is not the correct one, what do you think the answer is? And again, it's cynically you could describe it as giving guys enough rope to hang themselves with, which again is not a bad thing if it's a bad idea to say, like, well, let's hear more of your bad idea until we know, you know, that it's it's not a good alternative here. But I think that that's the half a step back versus five steps rushed forward, I think is is maybe a good characterization of hopefully what I've learned and when I'm on my most alert that I can make the half a step back a better strategy to address what guys want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah. Was that the 245 bell, Sean? Okay, I'm gonna have one more for you if you want to do quickly. Of course. So then where do you see uh with everything that is changing in the world in terms of AI and the way kids' attention spans are with social media and all these other things, where do you see teaching going to keep, you know, to keep students engaged and something where like, you know, they they're have ac they have readily access information at the fingertips, and it's just very quick and very fast. And it's getting almost quicker and faster.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Yeah. I so admire the work of Jonathan Haidt, H A I D T. He wrote The Anxious Generation or co-wrote it. He's one of the most uh strong public advocates in American society, certainly, Western society, for being aware of the effects of technology on our on our kids. You know, his rule is no cell phone till 14, no social media till 16. And again, he's just a great voice. And um, he's recently said, it's it's fascinating if you follow the literature that um people who belong, especially to religious communities with an ever-increasing gap here tend to report higher happiness. Young people who are part of religious communities who do for us, which do for us, things that AI and bots online and all the social media in the world can't do for you. And again, that doesn't mean that religious claims are true, but it's fascinating that the gap seems to be widening. And I think the gap will continue to widen in people who immerse themselves in technology in a way that's meant to substitute real human relationships, positive relationships, negative relationships, accountability, trust, betrayal. I I think that it's going to become more and more clear if people try to substitute humanity and human community and to rely entirely on AI, I think that the the consequences will will manifest in in big ways. And um so all that being said, I think teachers have to be a bit more wily. I think we have to design assignments that make it impossible or make it extremely difficult to avoid engaging. And I think that means more face-to-face point of contact that we have to strengthen our classroom community, our school community. That I would love to venture even more into you know what? Instead of writing an essay, you have to speak on this out loud instead of a final exam that's based just on um written responses. Again, not everybody is good at face-to-face point of contact kind of things, but you know what? Not everybody is as good at scantrons or essay writing either. So I would love to have even more that prepares our students for real human communal interactions, the kind of things that you need in an interview, the kind of things you need in a team setting, and to say, we're gonna design assignments and we're gonna build a community that's even more capable of providing what AI never can and what the um what the imposters, you know, the the perfectly fine social and technological innovations, like the things that can be wonderful, but what those cannot deliver, I think we need to even be stronger on. So again, I I know if I assign something that a student can do with AI, that even if one student does it, that it really devalues everybody's work. So I want even more strongly to say we're gonna use our class time differently to engage in a way face to face where you can't farm this out to Chat GPT, but you have to stand and deliver and be ready for the consequences of preparation or lack thereof.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

For sure. Well, I do not want to take up any more of your time because I know you were busy of places to go and people to see. Mr. Yun Shai, what a pleasure. It was an absolute pleasure. And now we have uh a part two or something to discuss because I had way more questions from that answer.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

That's great. Yeah, awesome. I look forward to it. I'll be here. Thank you, good George. Appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Yunshine.